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14-03-18, 08:07 AM | #11 | |
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The reason i prefer less lethal though comes back to just the game. I like to get 100 percent. Killing is penalised and rightly so to a degree. I also find when playing with a private group I take mp5 on armoured suspect missions. This is more realistic to swat teams. For example with a few suspects like Fairfax less lethal shotgun would be a real life choice as threat is minimal. Sadly though I play public most the time and taking less lethal teaches rambos tactics have to be used as you cannot rush and kill everything with less lethal setup. I agree about the comment saying tactics are only less lethal. That's crap. Depends on the player mentality with lethal. This is what gets confused. Both options used tactics, it's not about the kit but the use of it. Lastly I come back to why I choose less lethal personally.... Police don't like kills. Particularly in the UK. Many examples of when the British SAS have been called in to end sieges after police hand over control. When the military special forces get a green light, it is pretty much the end of the line for the suspects will be killed. Take the Iranian embassy siege. Police did not storm the building as their mentality is not like the military. They tried negotiations and failed. SAS mopped it up. Either way I play swat with a constant view suspects should face justice and be forced to comply. A death is a big thing for the police, but less lethal or lethal, the kill should be a last resort. That's more the discussion in my opinion. The tactics players take, which I see too many thinking it's counter strike. Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
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14-03-18, 11:13 AM | #12 |
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Hey.
Just wanted to say that I am with Matt on this one. Lethal is a last resort... But I am quick to use it against a surprise threat, especially when a hostage is threatened. My load out usually consists of a lot of gas canisters, due to the effectiveness of subduing several known suspects and being effective in a challenging environment. I vary my armaments, but I carry one lethal weapon to always be able to shoot, be it through glass or plastic to take out a hostile target if need be. I also try to respect Police ROE. If a suspect runs, I usually don't fire a lethal weapon, even if he fired first, lost his gun or got stunned and ran. Runners are really dangerous to officers in the game, yet I prefer not to shoot someone in the back. You have some nice tools in SWAT4, but I think some of those tools made players more lazy with their team efforts... With doorsitting and wedging, it is a bit of a manipulation more than a SWAT4 tactical entry. I'm all for a fun time though, cuffing up suspects and calling it a day with a 100 point smile is my favorite. |
14-03-18, 12:31 PM | #13 | |
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Door sitting, as you call it. SAS calls it body wedging. Soooooooo unrealistic. What do you suppose any non AI suspect would do about a door that is being held by an officer's ass? He would pump said ass full of lead. If you don't have wedges, please don't use the door sit/body wedge. This "tool" is an LTL player's compensation to not wanting to shoot any suspects. Don't be lazy. If you anticipate needing wedges, then equip your team with enough of them. Otherwise, be a true operator and cover the door with your weapon from a safe angle and distance. If a suspect enters unannounced, issue compliance then let the bodies fall where they may.
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14-03-18, 03:24 PM | #14 |
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Have to agree with Demon Speed.
I prefer using lethal weapons, because it encourages close teamwork to achieve a good score. Also i think it is more challenging - but i not claim its harder to complete the round, survive the round or to aim your gun. No. But it is harder to get a good score, it's harder to get 100/100 ranking. And that is good this way! Certainly, i think like most people, i started playing the game less lethal. And as you said Matt, it almost ensures that you get a 100 score per round. Actually i know less lethal players that consider it a failure if there is any other end result than 100. Skilled players can practically clear the default maps completely alone using less-lethal guns and getting full score. But i learned fast that, for me, a score of 100 doesn't mean it was a good round... for example when people on a Less-Lethal-server started pepper rushing on Tenement and i virtually never see a teammate the whole round. Although 100/100, the "GG" at the end almost feels like irony. Thats no cooperation in my opinion. The biggest weakness of Less Lethal is, as experienced player you not really need to cooperate with others or teamwork. Also a less-lethal player does not need to care for Rules of Engagements - you can always "shot on sight" without consequences... if it was a civilian that came around the corner and got hit by a beanbag, who cares? I know it sounds like a "David vs Goliath" thing going with a Nova pump and beanbags against heavily armed, armored combatants. But in this game it really isn't! One beanbag round, no matter at which body part it is placed, will stun every opponent. Thats what lethal players are talking about, when saying less-lethal is overpowered. In contrast to that, lethal players can only rely on their tacaids to solve the situation without casulties. With tacaids i mean flashbangs, gas, breaching equipment, wedges etc. And these are extremely limited, forcing you to work together to achieve a good end result. Im totally with you, when you say SWAT is a police force and there to save lives. I think thats the curse of lethal weapons, that some people tend to confuse military (or anti-terror missions) with the tasks of a police force, that SWAT is. Unfortunately there are lethal players that provoke shootouts, entering rooms without nades (even if they still got plenty), simply going for the kill (to prove their good reaction? idk). But i think a serious lethal player is also aiming for a 100 score! But getting there is a real team effort and a lot harder to achieve. And yes, it is possible to do full score on all default maps with a full lethal setup (primary and secondary weapon lethal). Of course this requires different tactics and procedures than with Less-Lethal, but if you succeed it feels like a real accomplishment. I think in the end people have many different motives to play Swat4 COOP - some want to "beat" the game and get high scores others want a realistic experience and close teamwork. I would say, stay open minded and respect each other. Thats most important. Greetings
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14-03-18, 10:02 PM | #15 | |
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15-03-18, 06:25 AM | #16 | |
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Nothing a bit of training among us won't fix though. With EL, R1, R2, B1, B2 set up and having designated roles and tactics people know fairly well, it should be smooth sailing for element lead to designate roles and each role having a load out that fits the role... Red being point, Blue being secondary/cover/back-up.1's carrying mirror, 2's deployment.. Movements and formations adapting to the environment flawlessly without an EL having to direct... With rolling points in hallways for maximum cover and... and... Yeah... My SWAT3 days are surfacing here. |
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15-03-18, 08:45 AM | #17 | |
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It was all because you always play with the same team and know how they playing. But we did have like El,Red1 and so on before and it worked pretty good. |
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15-03-18, 08:59 AM | #18 |
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In regards to body-wedging, a humorous input from me, picture this if you'd like:
I do wonder how much of a heart attack would someone get, if the suspect simply pulled the door open instead of continuously trying to push it open, since as we all know, doors in SWAT4 open BOTH ways. "Oh this door can't be pushed? I pull. Hello there, random crouching officer with his back turned thinking the door is sealed." :3 |
15-03-18, 09:22 AM | #19 | |
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My responsibility would be to try to find the best solutions to the issues that arise, and to reign players in and maybe give some risky orders to keep the players on their toes even though I know the layout and dangerous corners. The players need to feel a bit of a thrill too, and not just the mundane (trust me, in the past I would go with safe and mundane). I know I've gotten more triggerhappy over the years too. I wish there was a mod that switched up enemy placement more. Making more roamers (seemingly individuals with things to do and not just standing in the same place for hours). But I suppose I could start playing those custom maps. |
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15-03-18, 10:13 AM | #20 | |
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