Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS_Random
I agree that it's harder to get a good score playing lethal. Of course anyone can rambo through a mission killing every suspect in sight, and this seems to be the default opinion that LTL players have of players using lethal weapons. Lethal does not mean kill them all and let God sort them. Far from it.
There is no doubt that games like SWAT4 lean players toward LTL, if they want to score high. If you want to exceed the game limitations imposed by such a point system, playing lethal and trying to arrest as many suspects as is safe for civilians and officers, and preserving anywhere from 60-80 points, you have probably played as close to true police ROE as possible.
Police try to save lives, that is true. However, police assign value to each life differently. For example, if there is a choice between saving a civlian non-combatant or an armed suspect, these are not equal in the ledger sheet. If there is a choice between saving and officer or saving a civlian non-combatant, close your ears...ROE is to save the officer. This doesn't mean that an officer will choose to save himself before a civilian--often the opposite is true, but a partner or team mate should ALWAYS choose team over civilian. In the military the mission comes first. If saving a scumbag for interrogation is the goal, you just pray that such decisions don't have to be made during your next operation. Therefore it's well known police tactics are to avoid loss of life.
Also, from my perspective, SAS added SWAT 4 because it was a great tactical shooter and we play using a blend of police and military tactics because it makes the most sense for us. What drives me nuts is when people say stupid things like, "We play tactical here, no lethal weapons." I don't think that word 'tactical' means what you think it means. Just because my tactics are different than yours, doesn't mean I'm not playing tactically. I always laugh at the ridiculousness of the idea that tactical=LTL. What you should say is that we use LTL tactics here. You can't change the meaning of a word to suit your needs because it invalidates everyone else's tactics.
Just because most idiot, nabs don't know how to properly employ lethal tactics, doesn't mean that there are not good tactics being used during lethal-weapons-only play.
Try scoring over 70 points at the DNA lab using only lethal weapons and tactics. It's HARD. Conversely, it's fairly simple to use LTL tactics and score over 80 points.
That's my opinion, I welcome yours.
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I agree with you totally. Exact same viewpoint I share.
The reason i prefer less lethal though comes back to just the game. I like to get 100 percent. Killing is penalised and rightly so to a degree.
I also find when playing with a private group I take mp5 on armoured suspect missions. This is more realistic to swat teams. For example with a few suspects like Fairfax less lethal shotgun would be a real life choice as threat is minimal.
Sadly though I play public most the time and taking less lethal teaches rambos tactics have to be used as you cannot rush and kill everything with less lethal setup.
I agree about the comment saying tactics are only less lethal. That's crap. Depends on the player mentality with lethal. This is what gets confused. Both options used tactics, it's not about the kit but the use of it.
Lastly I come back to why I choose less lethal personally.... Police don't like kills. Particularly in the UK. Many examples of when the British SAS have been called in to end sieges after police hand over control. When the military special forces get a green light, it is pretty much the end of the line for the suspects will be killed. Take the Iranian embassy siege. Police did not storm the building as their mentality is not like the military. They tried negotiations and failed. SAS mopped it up.
Either way I play swat with a constant view suspects should face justice and be forced to comply. A death is a big thing for the police, but less lethal or lethal, the kill should be a last resort. That's more the discussion in my opinion. The tactics players take, which I see too many thinking it's counter strike.
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