Report DB v3 - Stats Launch

[Matt]

Hi all

Just a quick one to let you know there has been a database upgrade resulting in the following:

1)
Player rank parameters such as DCOP etc are now awarded based on player score opposed to just time spent in the servers. This is to ensure constant challenge in getting a better rank, opposed to just playing for more time.

Please note that the player score is made up of gaming time, penalties & deaths.

2)
There is now a new leaderboard to track player performance. You have to be registered at the website for this to work however. The top 5 from this leaderboard also display in our servers.

www.sog-team.co.uk/report/statistics.php

3)
Link changes now displayed on the database homepage

Please let us know if you have any further questions,

Matt

[KeeRIeS]

Please note that the player score is made up of gaming time, penalties & deaths.


Hey! May I ask for more info on that? How are the ranks awarded? What's the exact equation for the score to be calculated?

[Matt]

Hey! May I ask for more info on that? How are the ranks awarded? What's the exact equation for the score to be calculated?In a nutshell,

Score = (deaths+points) / gaming time

So...

This new formula results in a fairer process.

- The more time spent in servers gives you a better chance of pushing your score up
- The more points gained reduces your scoring
- The more you "die" in servers, this also reduces your scoring

[KeeRIeS]

In a nutshell,

Score = (deaths+points) / gaming time

So...

This new formula results in a fairer process.

- The more time spent in servers gives you a better chance of pushing your score up
- The more points gained reduces your scoring
- The more you "die" in servers, this also reduces your scoring

Where does it then come from that I have 15 penalties, 15 deaths and 186 hours and it gives 84% in total oO

Also, to the penalties you only count the penalties that left on your account when you leave the server, what about the penalties gained before the rule of -4 penalties per 20 minutes...? These should be resetted as before they were all counted in...

[Matt]

Ok this might help explain better....

The actual calculation is this to get the percentage:

100%-((DEATHS + PENALTIES) / (GAME TIME)*100

So in your case:

100%-((15+ 15) / (186hrs)*100

30 / 186hrs = 0.16

0.16 * 100 (to get percentage deduction) = 16.12%

100% - 16.12% = 83.88% rounded to 84%

Second question....

The penalty points are only those left on your account when you leave the server. Anything the adminbot takes from you in the server is NEVER included in the total count.

Also remember the adminbot will never deduct points in two occasions;

1. If you have less than 4 points. E.g you have 2 points. They will never expire.

2. If you have over 10 points. They will never expire

[Orion]

Also remember the adminbot will never deduct points in two occasions;

1. If you have less than 4 points. E.g you have 2 points. They will never expire.

2. If you have over 10 points. They will never expire

Oh damn it! So after I had 14 points I wasted 2 hours for nothing? Hoping it will burn out ))) Thats something new actually that none mentioned before

[Orion]

Hi all


Player rank parameters such as DCOP etc are now awarded based on player score opposed to just time spent in the servers. This is to ensure constant challenge in getting a better rank, opposed to just playing for more time.

Please note that the player score is made up of gaming time, penalties & deaths.



How often does this list updates?

Problem- I already wrote about it. That it represents wrong score as penalties been implemented after hours been played by players. Those who grind hours before have advantage now )))

[Ninwes]

How often does this list updates?

Problem- I already wrote about it. That it represents wrong score as penalties been implemented after hours been played by players. Those who grind hours before have advantage now )))

There are still some other test going on as this is still beta, matt will follow up :)

[KeeRIeS]

The penalties scored after Jessica started giving them and before Jessica started deducting 4 penalties per 20 minutes are quite unfair now. We can clearly see people with 0 penalties just because they weren't playing in the short period of time when Jessica was only adding penalties. Now it only gives those not erased when you leave the server.

Orion's opinion is right on that time spent on servers - however the ime should be somehow included into ranks, as it's important how much time you've already spent on the servers anyways. Nevertheless all games played in the era of only increasing penalties are quite hurting for people who were active on the servers there and this matters much more than the time, as for every 100 hours you can get 1 penalty or death to still have 99%. To compare: Jessica uses to erase 4 penalties per 20 minutes, so per one hour you can get 12 penalties and they will be deducted so you leave the server with 0 penalties to be counted in the rank. 12 penalties per 1 hour = 1200 per 100 hours, so Jessica is deducting much more now than the hours from all the time let you have on your account - not lowering your rank.

[Matt]

OK so a few tweaks made... we shall see how it goes.

1) All stats have been reset for ALL players. You will now see this reflective on the stats page:

www.sog-team.co.uk/report/statistics.php

Please note, your gaming times have NOT be lost and are still stored. I am working on getting these displayed again shortly. Do not worry.

2)
The scoring calculation has been tweaked to make it easier to get up the ladder. Basically the same calculation exists, except your gaming time is multiplied by 5 to make it more realistic.

3)
Jessica now deducts 1 penalty point from you in the server every 5 minutes. This effectively is the same calculation as before, except can now mean players can leave the server with 0 points if they continue gaming. This is because as soon as you get any penalty points, Jess will deduct by one every 5 minutes meaning you can play for a few rounds without penalties and still leave the server with none.

The only exception to this is when you are kicked at 10 points. If you rejoin, no deductions are made by Jess after this point. If you then get 15 points, you are temp banned.

So to clarify, if you get over 10 points, Jessica no longer deducts points. You will leave the server on those points.

[SAS_Random]

Might I suggest that deaths be rolled back as well, perhaps at the rate of 1 per hour (do your own math to come up with a number you like) as far as calculations go. It seems that playing for an hour and not dying would be a pretty great feat since it seems that, of those that play, we all seem to die at least once every 30 minutes (more if the server is empty when we play), but those deaths accumulate and can never be reduced. My point is that often the deaths are just as glitched as the game penalty system. It only seems fair that some of those deaths can drop off with time played as well.

Also, if you apply a simply eye test to the level of game play you see from let's say Columbo. He rarely gets shot and makes nearly perfect shoot/no shoot decisions, yet his score is 41%. This means the ranking / scoring would not pass the eye test of determining the quality of gaming from the individual. This means that players using lethal weapons and making great decisions about shooting or not shooting can never hope to rank high. The quality of game play should have a factor to the overall score in some way. I can go into the server using non lethal all the time and never get a penalty....ever. For me, that would not be exciting. For the game to be exciting for me, I must give the armed suspect an opportunity to comply and then, based upon his reaction, apply appropriate force to control the situation without getting myself or anyone else killed. I will never score higher than 0% on your ranking system, but I'm a skilled player that completes about 60% of missions even when playing alone, makes solid shoot/no shoot decisions (suspect arrest to incapacitation rate of about 4/1), and put my shots on target an overwhelming percentage of the time. According to SOG scoring, that's worth nothing. 0%.

[KeeRIeS]

Might I suggest that deaths be rolled back as well, perhaps at the rate of 1 per hour (do your own math to come up with a number you like) as far as calculations go. It seems that playing for an hour and not dying would be a pretty great feat since it seems that, of those that play, we all seem to die at least once every 30 minutes (more if the server is empty when we play), but those deaths accumulate and can never be reduced. My point is that often the deaths are just as glitched as the game penalty system. It only seems fair that some of those deaths can drop off with time played as well.

Also, if you apply a simply eye test to the level of game play you see from let's say Columbo. He rarely gets shot and makes nearly perfect shoot/no shoot decisions, yet his score is 41%. This means the ranking / scoring would not pass the eye test of determining the quality of gaming from the individual. This means that players using lethal weapons and making great decisions about shooting or not shooting can never hope to rank high. The quality of game play should have a factor to the overall score in some way. I can go into the server using non lethal all the time and never get a penalty....ever. For me, that would not be exciting. For the game to be exciting for me, I must give the armed suspect an opportunity to comply and then, based upon his reaction, apply appropriate force to control the situation without getting myself or anyone else killed. I will never score higher than 0% on your ranking system, but I'm a skilled player that completes about 60% of missions even when playing alone, makes solid shoot/no shoot decisions (suspect arrest to incapacitation rate of about 4/1), and put my shots on target an overwhelming percentage of the time. According to SOG scoring, that's worth nothing. 0%.


The rank system is in its beta version. I offered my help and I will try to figure out a new equation that will be giving the final score to the leaderboard. For now, the system was resetted to give us some fresh data (free of those penalties given by Jessica before she started deducting 4 penalties per 20 minutes). According to this data, a new equation will be developed to make this rank system greater again 😀 I think Matt can confirm what I wrote above when he’s online :) When this is finished, players will be happier than ever before! 😂

Edit: I didn’t see Matt’s previous post... that’s mainly what I meant :P

PS: It seems like real policemen use the guns too early comparing to the RoE used in game 😀This is probably something for game programmers than Jessica’s standards anyway... Probably in real life you don’t wait until they are close to shoot you because of the danger of penalties...

[Orion]

Suggest calculate stats for week or maybe month then reset them to 0 ( If possible keep hours independent )
Example:
Played 80h, killed 7 hostages, 3 deaths bla bla % score

stats resets
Played 40h, killed 2 hostages, 1death bla bla % score ( calculated with 40h but over all 120h )

[Ninwes]

i think resseting the death count is not needed as it will be minimum and doesn't have much impact like the penaltys, it will be minimum depending on the hours anyway.

Maybe just make the death penaltys count for 20% only and then time and penalty 40% each, like that.

that will make your rank go higher, if you just want to let the death penalty go donw because you don't wanna show how many times you die.

imo if it doesn't affect jess just let it stay, penaltys affect how jess react ingame, deaths not.

Update: automaticly reset is also not needed as that will reset the muppets too, maybe a button where you can request that needs to be aproved.

[Orion]

i think resseting the death count is not needed as it will be minimum and doesn't have much impact like the penaltys, it will be minimum depending on the hours anyway.

Its still counts together with penalties and that percentage you get

that will make your rank go higher, if you just want to let the death penalty go donw because you don't wanna show how many times you die.


I do want to see deaths and penalties as it motivates you to be better and learn on misstakes. The point of me willing to reset stats as to show each time period how good you are and keep the leaderboard dynamic each time period. What will be interesting and entertaining as there is some challenge. As not everyone have much time to waste in games so not many chances to be in leaderboard . But if stats will reset you can attend in fight for some places at this week period and then have busy next week without chances to play. Also it will eliminate problem with players in leaderboard who reached rank and then stopped playing but keep place occupied

Could keep all the stats also in profile ( overall hours/time/penalties )


Update: automaticly reset is also not needed as that will reset the muppets too, maybe a button where you can request that needs to be aproved.

What are the 'muppets'? Not sure I understand it or how complicated it to code that

[SAS_Random]

example 1: a player takes 15 minutes to clear a map and plays 4 maps like that and he dies one time. No penalties and 1 death.

example 2: a player takes 7.5 minutes per map x 8 maps and dies 2 times over the same duration of time. That player scores lower because 2 deaths is more than 1 death.

Anyone that doesn't see that as unfairly weighted should speak up and explain your perspective.

If it's possible to track missions played so that time is not the sole denominator-- Even something as simple as (penalties + deaths) / rounds before factoring in the time played would be better.

100-(Penalties+Deaths)/Rounds/Hours*100


It would fix the inequities against those with a faster pace of play. Time as the sole denominator is crushing that type of player's score.

[KeeRIeS]

example 1: a player takes 15 minutes to clear a map and plays 4 maps like that and he dies one time. No penalties and 1 death.

example 2: a player takes 7.5 minutes per map x 8 maps and dies 2 times over the same duration of time. That player scores lower because 2 deaths is more than 1 death.


For me, more pro would be the first one. They both die 1 time per 4 maps, but at least the first one does it more tactically, slower and uses their brain more often :)

The first might have been killed as a result of a bugged sus not aiming at him before shot.

Excluding tournament purposes of getting as short time as possible to clear the map, I can honesty admin doing a map in time less than 8 minutes or on some maps less than 13-15 minutes is just a rush-gameplay - spotted often in rambos...

[Orion]

For me, more pro would be the first one. They both die 1 time per 4 maps, but at least the first one does it more tactically, slower and uses their brain more often :)

The first might have been killed as a result of a bugged sus not aiming at him before shot.

Excluding tournament purposes of getting as short time as possible to clear the map, I can honesty admin doing a map in time less than 8 minutes or on some maps less than 13-15 minutes is just a rush-gameplay - spotted often in rambos...

You are incorrect here. The faster you clear the better. All special forces training to clear building as fast as possible. First you training your stress resistance and how fast you can think in such situations. Also you adapt faster when situation is changed. Time is life as they say

[Ninwes]

What are the 'muppets'? Not sure I understand it or how complicated it to code that

The people who come in server and just shoot everyone, or kill civs, and so on, those muppets.

Like i said a button where you can ask for a reset that then needs to be aproved eliminates the reset of the rule breakers where no admin is there.

example 1: a player takes 15 minutes to clear a map and plays 4 maps like that and he dies one time. No penalties and 1 death.

example 2: a player takes 7.5 minutes per map x 8 maps and dies 2 times over the same duration of time. That player scores lower because 2 deaths is more than 1 death.

Anyone that doesn't see that as unfairly weighted should speak up and explain your perspective.

If it's possible to track missions played so that time is not the sole denominator-- Even something as simple as (penalties + deaths) / rounds before factoring in the time played would be better.

100-(Penalties+Deaths)/Rounds/Hours*100


It would fix the inequities against those with a faster pace of play. Time as the sole denominator is crushing that type of player's score.

Yes could be fixed with a quotation where deaths are only counted for 10% or so:

For example with every 5 hours played 1 death is allowed, then the qoutation of penaltys that still make the score good.

[Columbo]

Hey, wanted to give some feedback about the ranking formula :)

As it is now, I find it way too punishing and biased towards non-lethal playstyle.

While the latter is of course a decision SOG has to make (reward use of non-lethal weapons), it is still almost impossible to get a decent score (>50%) even for Non-lethal players IN THE LONG TERM.
I just took the formula from post #5 Matt did.
Even if you die ONCE in 2 hours (!) of gameplay, you get maximum of 50%. Even if doing 0 penalties.
Example: 100%-((90D + 15P) / (186hrs)*100=43,5%
I find this a very ambitious aim, especially in public gameplay :)

Another problem i see is, there is only the mistakes of players taken into account. Like Random said, that a person played more rounds and have therefore made more ARRESTS (or legal kills) is not counted.

Sorry but i also cannot agree to the philosophy "slow gameplay = tactical gameplay". That is simply not true!
First of all the term "tactic" has no relation to time, it is an: "action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end" (Oxford dictionary).
Thus, you can very well perform a tactic fast, with teamwork, stacking properly, performing mirror/scans etc. So this attitude does not comprise the whole issue appropriately.

After all, i think the system, how it is now, is not very motivating for players in general. I mean look at the leaderboard (http://www.sog-team.co.uk/report/statistics.php), a experienced and skilled player like Random, getting a 10-15% score? Keeries with 1 hour gameplay getting 56%?
Idk... again i like the idea behind an evaluation/ranking system... but this needs more tweaking :)

Greetings

[KeeRIeS]

Hey, wanted to give some feedback about the ranking formula :)

As it is now, I find it way too punishing and biased towards non-lethal playstyle.

While the latter is of course a decision SOG has to make (reward use of non-lethal weapons), it is still almost impossible to get a decent score (>50%) even for Non-lethal players IN THE LONG TERM.
I just took the formula from post #5 Matt did.
Even if you die ONCE in 2 hours (!) of gameplay, you get maximum of 50%. Even if doing 0 penalties.
Example: 100%-((90D + 15P) / (186hrs)*100=43,5%
I find this a very ambitious aim, especially in public gameplay :)

Another problem i see is, there is only the mistakes of players taken into account. Like Random said, that a person played more rounds and have therefore made more ARRESTS (or legal kills) is not counted.

Sorry but i also cannot agree to the philosophy "slow gameplay = tactical gameplay". That is simply not true!
First of all the term "tactic" has no relation to time, it is an: "action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end" (Oxford dictionary).
Thus, you can very well perform a tactic fast, with teamwork, stacking properly, performing mirror/scans etc. So this attitude does not comprise the whole issue appropriately.

After all, i think the system, how it is now, is not very motivating for players in general. I mean look at the leaderboard (http://www.sog-team.co.uk/report/statistics.php), a experienced and skilled player like Random, getting a 10-15% score? Keeries with 1 hour gameplay getting 56%?
Idk... again i like the idea behind an evaluation/ranking system... but this needs more tweaking :)

Greetings


As you noticed, my score with 1 hour spent on server is not very adequate due to short time counted in. You're right about the equation - this will be probably edited soon, as soon as there are some adequate data. I haven't have much time today to play TBH to make the statistics a little bit more adjusted. For only 1 hour you can't look at the scores as they are not precise and representative at all.

However about the 'slower-more tactical' -> what I said was mainly aiming at random public players, as it is from my 'admin experience' where usually rambos are running, more advanced players are moving much slower. This is what I wrote about and meant in that post.

Probably the equation should give a weight of 20 instead of 5 to the time spent on servers, which would allow you to have 1 death per 5 hours instead of 1 death per 20 hours

[Ninwes]

a experienced and skilled player like Random, getting a 10-15%
He does have 19 penaltys already after 5 hours so it's normal it's low.


But like i said:


Example:

Every 5 hours jess allows 1 death.

you play total 8 hours and you have 3 deaths, jess only count 2
You play 11 hours still have 3 deaths jess only counts 1
And so on.

So your profile still say 3 deaths but jesss only counts 1 in the qoutation.

No need for a reset and then you can work to it to work harder next time, if jess takes 1 penalty after 5 minutes, you can still get the 100%.

[SAS_Random]

For me, more pro would be the first one. They both die 1 time per 4 maps, but at least the first one does it more tactically, slower and uses their brain more often :)

Maybe the second one uses his brain twice as fast.

Also, half of my 19 penalties are from RJ blitzing through tangos after I died during a training round. Before I could tell him to stop he had shredded a line of tangos. He thought the round was essentially over because I was going to vote a restart.

Then we had to leave before the required 20 minutes that would have let some of the penalties burn off.

I had not told him yet about the penalty equation and that both of our penalties count on a single IP.

I probably played 50 or more maps today and died about every 5th map. I was playing well, in general.

[KeeRIeS]

Every 5 hours jess allows 1 death.

you play total 8 hours and you have 3 deaths, jess only count 2
You play 11 hours still have 3 deaths jess only counts 1
And so on.

So your profile still say 3 deaths but jesss only counts 1 in the qoutation.

No need for a reset and then you can work to it to work harder next time, if jess takes 1 penalty after 5 minutes, you can still get the 100%.

Does Jessica ignore the death or there is just multiplier in the equation like:

S=100% - (D+P)/(5*T)

S - Score
D - Deaths
P - Penalties
T- Time spent (in hours)

If the option with 5 * T , then it allows 1 death per 20 hours to still have 99% as Score


Maybe the second one uses his brain twice as fast.
When it comes to public players, newbies in the game - usually not :P believe me :)

Also, I didn't mean your case, as yours is very individual as you use the same IP with RJ, so it's very diffrent than the public players

[Ninwes]

Does Jessica ignore the death or there is just multiplier in the equation like:

S=100% - (D+P)/(5*T)

S - Score
D - Deaths
P - Penalties
T- Time spent (in hours)

If the option with 5 * T , then it allows 1 death per 20 hours to still have 99% as Score



When it comes to public players, newbies in the game - usually not :P believe me :)
For now she doesnt ignore it yet as we are still feedbacking :-P

[Matt]

Does Jessica ignore the death or there is just multiplier in the equation like:

S=100% - (D+P)/(5*T)

S - Score
D - Deaths
P - Penalties
T- Time spent (in hours)

If the option with 5 * T , then it allows 1 death per 20 hours to still have 99% as Score



When it comes to public players, newbies in the game - usually not :P believe me :)

Also, I didn't mean your case, as yours is very individual as you use the same IP with RJ, so it's very diffrent than the public players

That is currently in operation at the moment. Interesting and varied feedback in this thread.

I think we will never please anyone when we get this launched. I am glad the BETA is currently allowing us to try different concepts and calculations. However, I fear we may never strike the balance.

[Matt]

That is currently in operation at the moment. Interesting and varied feedback in this thread.

I think we will never please anyone when we get this launched. I am glad the BETA is currently allowing us to try different concepts and calculations. However, I fear we may never strike the balance.

Ok so again based on everyones feedback, we have modified it once more. This time I am confident all will be happier with the scoring system.

1) Bot still continues to deduct one point per 5 mins for any penalties you receive in the server unless you exceed 10 points.

2) Scoring system is now calculated as per the original formula, but this time per gaming session. To explain:

OLD CALCULATION - All time spent on servers / All deaths and penalties = score, and calculated from player totals every 3hrs.

NEW CALCULATION - Total time on gaming session / gaming session deaths and penalties only = score %. This is then averaged out to give you the total. This information is updated automatically without the need for a game / round.