View Full Version : BETA: AdminBot COOP Points System
Hello everyone,
Following on from the new server statistics launch, please now be advised we are running a BETA AdminBot feature for CO-OP gameplay.
This feature is currently in testing, hence the BETA. Therefore we are keen to hear thoughts of the community so we can listen to your feedback for improvements.
WHAT IS THIS SYSTEM?
This feature allows the AdminBot (|SOG|Jessica) to administrate gameplay on the CO-OP servers ONLY.
The tactic used is a simple points system for all players. The AdminBot monitors gameplay and checks for violations before warning players. If warnings are ignored, the AdminBot kicks players from the server.
WHY HAVE YOU ADDED THIS FEATURE?
Quite simply to improve gameplay in our servers. We are committed to providing the best CO-OP servers in SWAT 4. Our AdminBot ensures we operate a firm but fair admin policy consistently, with or without our members being present. Therefore to ensure our servers now include only tactically minded, team players, this improvement ensures compliance is met.
Ultimately, we ONLY wish to provide a server for players that respect ROE, respect other players, and wish to have fun in a manner that follows the game principles. If this is not you, we encourage you to join other servers.
SO HOW DOES IT WORK?
All players start with 0 points everytime they join our CO-OP servers.
The Adminbot looks at key player gameplay choices as determined by the SWAT 4 game. These include the following;
- Unauthorised suspect kills as determined by the game (shooting against ROE)
- Killing civilians in any manner
- Team killing other coop players
- Suicides of any description
Four penalty points expire after every 20 minutes of gameplay
OK. SO WHAT ACTIONS ARE TAKEN?
- Unauthorised suspect kills = 2 points each
- Killing a hostage = 4 points each
- Player Suicide = 3 points each
- Teamkilling = 5 points each occurrence
With the above logic in mind, the AdminBot will then;
ADMINS NOT PRESENT ON SERVER:
4 points = 1st WARNING MADE
8 points = FINAL WARNING MADE
10 points = KICKED FROM SERVER
15 points = TEMP BANNED FOR ONE WEEK
ADMINS PRESENT ON SERVER:
4 points = 1st WARNING MADE
8 points = ADMINS INFORMED
10 points = ADMINS INFORMED
15 points = PLAYER FORCED LESS LETHAL FOR ONE ROUND
IMPORTANT:
The game does have some bugs in regards to unauthorised suspect kills. This no doubt will result in points being obtained unfairly. However these bugs are not as frequent as some players will suggest. Some players will use this for an excuse or their own personal justification for killing suspects without need. This ensures a fairer tolerance to players in these circumstances. However, whichever way this is looked at, the adminbot is only responding to the game mechanic. Points are only attributed to players whereby the end round scoring will be affected. Some players must remember that the majority of our players can play for hours in our servers without enough points to be kicked. In this case, we would respectfully ask players being kicked by the adminbot for unauthorised kills to look at their own gameplay and reflect. These players are generally speaking, not really adhering to the rules of engagement that police should in this game.
IS THIS LINKED TO PLAYER STATS
Yes it is. Your deaths in coop and penalty points reduce your score visible on the stats.
CAN I PROVIDE FEEDBACK?
Yes, constructively please. We will not be removing this feature and only improving it. Therefore, please provide feedback that will help this get better opposed to state it's removal. Most will agree the reasons for this feature are to better enhance the coop experience for everyone.
We are keen to hear your thoughts.
*PLEASE NOTE, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE BOT CRITERIA AT ANYTIME WITHOUT NOTICE.
Matt
SAS_Random
03-06-18, 03:17 PM
212pm GMT I was kicked by Jessica after an unspecified rule violation. If there was a text warning, I did not see it. Columbo was in the server and so was Skully. The series of events, as I remember them was vault at DuPlessis diamond center. I was stacked right and flashing left. I followed my flash left and did not have a contact to 12 so i went hard left and had a suspect facing that I punched and strafed out of his line of fire. I issued compliance and punched again and he appeared to be giving up, so I equipped flex cuffs and was shot from behind and took damage. I turned around and saw no threat, so I continued to flex cuff when I saw Jessica state I would now be kicked. I immediately rejoined and asked wtf did Jessica say I did? Columbo said I did absolutely nothing and that I should post here so Jessica's BETA can be researched and fine tuned.
Oh great! Players that take papper balls will be nightmare for those who take lethal. Altho I see some positives here as Jess will kick 'Rambos' and no need for admins around
And as I correctly understood its lasting a session as you play and then points restets to 0 til you play another session? But how does it effects our stats and what will it shows in it?
212pm GMT I was kicked by Jessica after an unspecified rule violation. If there was a text warning, I did not see it. Columbo was in the server and so was Skully. The series of events, as I remember them was vault at DuPlessis diamond center. I was stacked right and flashing left. I followed my flash left and did not have a contact to 12 so i went hard left and had a suspect facing that I punched and strafed out of his line of fire. I issued compliance and punched again and he appeared to be giving up, so I equipped flex cuffs and was shot from behind and took damage. I turned around and saw no threat, so I continued to flex cuff when I saw Jessica state I would now be kicked. I immediately rejoined and asked wtf did Jessica say I did? Columbo said I did absolutely nothing and that I should post here so Jessica's BETA can be researched and fine tuned.
Today you killed unauthorised atleast 5 times.
5 at 2 points each is 10
Meaning kick from server.
So jess did not bug but did what it was supposed to do at the time points do not reset per map change.
Demon speed
03-06-18, 04:38 PM
If i good understood Matt, then it's should restart points after change map.. If not, then when restart?
If i good understood Matt, then it's should restart points after change map.. If not, then when restart?No, points are valid for one server session. That means for each gaming session not just each map. As I said though caps do apply for civ and suspect kills each round
Basically as orion said
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SAS_Random
03-06-18, 06:38 PM
So, essentially, garbage in equals garbage out. The game gets it wrong and Jess bases things on faulty data. It should reset every 30 minutes--in my less than humble opinion.
So, essentially, garbage in equals garbage out. The game gets it wrong and Jess bases things on faulty data. It should reset every 30 minutes--in my less than humble opinion.I would read my post above. From my years of experience in swat 4, indeed the game does get it wrong or should we say leaving a debate... However this is few and far between. Furthermore the bot has an inbuilt tolerance cap.
The majority of players, (76% since we launched this beta) have not been allocated any points for unauthorised kills. Therefore I think this proves the theory.
I would suggest that those being kicked are a little too trigger happy.
For yourself though.... You've said yourself on these forums you play like the SAS and treat suspects differently to the game. E.g. Shooting runners. Therefore I believe this is why you are being kicked...
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Columbo
03-06-18, 08:05 PM
Well, Random was suddenly kicked during a round where he did no unauthorized kills (or other penalties).
By the way, this happend 1h earlier at 1:12 PM (13:12) GMT on the SOG COOP server TSS (Swat4X) on DuPlessis.
I did not see any warnings before, as well. So this was a little weird.
Maybe there was a "little" lag between penalty and actions taken?
Generally i appreciate this system and the intention behind it.
Maybe you should make more transparent to players when they get points, and how many they already have. Maybe display the penalty points via server message or in the personal forum account for example, idk.
And could you explain the session system again? Im not sure i quite get it yet.
When does a "session" end? When the server is restarted, when the player leaves or after a certain time? :)
Greetings
Well, Random was suddenly kicked during a round where he did no unauthorized kills (or other penalties).
By the way, this happend 1h earlier at 1:12 PM (13:12) GMT on the SOG COOP server TSS (Swat4X) on DuPlessis.
I did not see any warnings before, as well. So this was a little weird.
Maybe there was a "little" lag between penalty and actions taken?
Generally i appreciate this system and the intention behind it.
Maybe you should make more transparent to players when they get points, and how many they already have. Maybe display the penalty points via server message or in the personal forum account for example, idk.
And could you explain the session system again? Im not sure i quite get it yet.
When does a "session" end? When the server is restarted, when the player leaves or after a certain time? :)
Greetings
There is indeed a lag between player points being awarded and action taken. This can be reduced but sadly increases server load. Please however be assured the fairness of the points allocated is reliable. The reason for the delay is an example like follows;
Player is already on 2 points, then kills two suspects unauthorised, then a third within quick succession. This results in the potential for another 4 points being allocated (as due to quick succession, bot allows tolerance of the two killed together). Immediately after, they kill a hostage. The player would normally be warned at 4 point interval, however due to the quick succession of 4 points plus 3 for hostage kill, the warning is skipped and the player is warned second time.
This can therefore happen and result in a player being kicked only after one warning due to the late delay.
In regards to the points allocation, everytime a player joins a server, the counter resets (providing it is not immediate). There is a expiring time before the counter is reset after the player leaves. Examples;
Player joins at 12.30PM... They leave at 3.30PM. Ten points tolerance applies for the whole of this time.
Player joins at 1PM. They get kicked at 2.10PM for 10 points. They immediately rejoin the server. The 10 points still apply until the player leaves again.
SAS_Random
03-06-18, 11:06 PM
If I play a dozen maps, I probably take down 2-3 of the 14-15 suspects. Of those 2-3 that I drop, 1-2 is incapacitated and 1-2 is neutralised. About every other round, the game gets one of those situations wrong for a number of reasons. So about every 10-12 maps, I'll be accumulating enough points to be kicked.
It gets more frequent when there are players using LTL shotguns or pepper balls, because if I shoot suspect that was also hit with a pepperball and drop him, the game finds the action of incapacitating him as wrong even though I made the same decision the pepperball shooter did at the exact same time he did. The game considers him under the influence of pepper balls and should not be shot.
I also don't drop runners...I shoot them once in the leg so I can catch up to them and beat the crap out of them ;-)
If I play a dozen maps, I probably take down 2-3 of the 14-15 suspects. Of those 2-3 that I drop, 1-2 is incapacitated and 1-2 is neutralised. About every other round, the game gets one of those situations wrong for a number of reasons. So about every 10-12 maps, I'll be accumulating enough points to be kicked.
It gets more frequent when there are players using LTL shotguns or pepper balls, because if I shoot suspect that was also hit with a pepperball and drop him, the game finds the action of incapacitating him as wrong even though I made the same decision the pepperball shooter did at the exact same time he did. The game considers him under the influence of pepper balls and should not be shot.
I also don't drop runners...I shoot them once in the leg so I can catch up to them and beat the crap out of them ;-)
Not doubting you but the stats speak for themselves mate.... if this was truly a global problem, why have 76% of players so far not received any penalty points? They surely shoot suspects too?
Let's take Columbo for an example (sorry Columbo). Looking at the stats so far, he has played roughly 4hrs today. He has not accumulated any points but has neutralised nearly a dozen suspects.
I am not denying your logic above, far from it. I agree totally that this happens. The answer is to buck the trend. If you are getting points other players are not, this ultimately means you are shooting too many suspects too freely, regardless of the he said, she said, he did, she did, this happened, that happened....
Must say though, the non lethal thing you mention.... don't get it. If I see a player shoot a suspect with the pepper gun, I don't shoot the suspect. If it is a reflex shot, I usually stop firing immediately resulting in the suspect being injured but generally not incapacitated. This doesn't always happen granted, but I guess I must just have less of an itchy trigger finger than others perhaps...
We will review the tolerance levels, but in line with the status quo... hence why this is a beta
KeeRIeS
03-06-18, 11:28 PM
I would take under consideration not counting the unauthorized shooting as the penalties for auto-warns and/or kicks/temp bans. As far as Jessica is only Jessica, she can't know if the shooting was just a mistake or on purpose. As far as shooting civilians or teammembers is much often on purpose and those rule violations are usually more serious. However, shooting unauthorized is more like a mistake, game bug or just depends on the time of reaction, while the suspect stops aiming and starts running just before the player shoots.
Shooting unauthorized should be rather a violations penalized by human being who can judge if the shooting is on purpose or not. Even if the player gets not so many points for such violation, they damage the statistics but also can cause a kick or temp ban for players playing like 10 maps in one session, just like Random mentioned.
I had opportunities to experience the 'suspects changing their mind so fast' and get the penalties for nothing to be honest. Also, I've seen some players getting those penalties in such cases.
To sum up, I am totally happy for Jessica taking action in case of killing civilians or teamkilling (would also be good to have her reacting on teamspray or teamshoot like with LL weapons as those are the main things done by really bad players - I know this is a way harder to do as the chatlogs doesn't show that). However there are still some rule violations that really requires Admins with eyes and human brain and can't be penalized by any automated bot. There are still some parts when an active admin is needed and maybe rather some 'admin calling system' would be better than Jessica - at least in some cases.
Best regards,
Demon speed
04-06-18, 03:36 AM
Well, like Keeries said. Penalties for unauthorized are not precise. Most my unauthorized are due killing suspect while is behide cover or even partly but still aim player - suspect can instant lean any time but killing him is treat as not aiming player - unauthozied. I shot first cuz i know they hell fast when leaning. someone must go down, bugged suspect or me. If i get kick points for that then its would be greatly unfair.
For next days gonna play check it. I want to be sure how it's work in practic.
Based on feedback we will review this later and tweak the current actions taken.
The proposed changes will be for unauthorised kills only and the subsequent actions.
Will post back tonight.
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OK...
BETA UPDATE rev1:
- Jessica (AdminBot) will now only kick players when admins are not present in the server.
- When admins are in the server, control will be handed back to the admins. Penalty points are still recorded and warnings will also be made.
- Players will not be kicked when admins are present, however if penalty points exceed 15, the AdminBot will intervene and force the player to use less lethal (unless the admin responds prior).
- Player Suicide = 3 points each
Why this is a punishment? I dont know many players who join game and suicide so others do minute of silence :)
- Player Suicide = 3 points each
Why this is a punishment? I dont know many players who join game and suicide so others do minute of silence :)
Indeed but there is absolutely no reason for players to distrupt gameplay and suicide so it is therefore a rule violation
What I wanted to say is that theres none, even hardcore troll will do a suicide just for laughs. Suicides happens on mistakes and everyone do mistakes. And that mostly happens when there is a gas tank behind suspect. Flash/sting also can be the reason of suicide. You cant be safe from that in all scenarios. And yet you get almost same amount of punishment points as killing civi. Not like im defending crooked hands and dont think it happens that often. Just didnt get why its even a thing
What I wanted to say is that theres none, even hardcore troll will do a suicide just for laughs. Suicides happens on mistakes and everyone do mistakes. And that mostly happens when there is a gas tank behind suspect. Flash/sting also can be the reason of suicide. You cant be safe from that in all scenarios. And yet you get almost same amount of punishment points as killing civi. Not like im defending crooked hands and dont think it happens that often. Just didnt get why its even a thingAgree that's why the tolerance allows 4 suicides before kick. It's simply a condition for the fact it shouldn't happen regardless of accident.
Maybe I'm missing the point? Some trolls do purposely suicide to end the round for whatever reason
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SAS_Random
06-06-18, 10:23 AM
I think a lot of people understand the point of unauthorized kills being highly flawed. Besides, very rarely does a cop fire one round at a suspect. When lethal fire is authorized, it's to protect innocent life. Officers fire until the threat is eliminated. Never does any department teach to fire one shot, see how it goes, then follow it up with another round if necessary, repeat as needed. Some jurisdictions train their officers that, once lethal force is authorized--empty your entire handgun mag, if that's what it takes for the suspect to drop the weapon. Do what you must to survive and keep other innocent people safe.
As far as the suicide thing goes, I partially get it. When there are only two players in the server, some trolls hide in corners or less frequently traveled portions of the map and drop from the server so the remaining player can't vote the map to end and will have a hard time finding the final TOC. It's very annoying, but other than that, many times people join just after another player starts a round, so they immediately suicide to give that person a chance to play. Other players will suicide if the other player in the server dies early in the round. These are situations where voting the map would be the best choice, but it still happens and shouldn't really result in points added. Of course there are times when a rambo goes on a killing spree ending with taking their own life. That's really the only time a suicide should be a penalty. I think the point value for a suicide should be minimal...like perhaps 1 point. If they are maliciously suiciding, I'm sure they are doing much worse things that will accumulate points without needing to crack down on suiciding so harshly.
We will look at all options in this BETA, but we will not be reducing the points for suicide. The managers have decided this scoring is fair and appropriate. For the most players who wish to play correctly, this suicide penalty is simply not discussed or an issue.
In regards to the shooting unauthorised, this is something we will continue to penalise, however the parameters are open for discussion.
We will ensure the community gets a final vote.
BETA REVISION 3
From the community feedback, we have made another change to this system.
The reasoning is to further prevent trolls / rambos but ensure fair treatment for our serious gamers
- All instances of the violations (unauthorised kills, suicides, teamkills & killing hostages), are now recorded with penalties. There are no caps or limits per round.
- The Bot now automatically deducts 4 points every ten minutes of gameplay unless you have 0 penalty points already.
- No deductions are made if you leave the server. Points you left the server on, stand.
Example:
Player joins server and immediately kills 4 suspects unauthorised within the first ten minutes.
2 x 4 = 8 penalty points awarded
Player continues to play in the server for ten minutes without further violations. Therefore bot deducts 4 points off the players penalties.
8 - 4 = 4 penalty points remaining
Please feedback your thoughts from the server.
__________________
SAS_Random
09-06-18, 01:02 AM
If I understand it correctly, I like it.
A player quickly gets 4 ua kills, accumulates 8 points and leaves the server. Before the update, he would return with 0 points, now those 8 points are still attached to him when he returns. The longer I play my points are partially restored by -4 every 10 minutes, so long sessions don't result in a kick middle of a round.
May I suggest something to reduce the amounts of messages (text clutter) during the round? Only display messages for violations. Do not display for legal incapacitations, legal neutralization or arrests.
May I suggest something to reduce the amounts of messages (text clutter) during the round? Only display messages for violations. Do not display for legal incapacitations, legal neutralization or arrests.This can be done but is useful for admins to see this information. Furthermore I'm currently enhancing our stats to display how many track how many suspects have been incapacitated by the player. This will then build into the experience scoring.
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SAS_Random
09-06-18, 05:51 PM
This can be done but is useful for admins to see this information. Furthermore I'm currently enhancing our stats to display how many track how many suspects have been incapacitated by the player. This will then build into the experience scoring.
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There must be a way to change that text so only the admins see the legal stuff. Keep the illegal stuff visible to all so players can vote kick and report and screenshot evidence. I mean I know I just arrested that suspect because I was there when it happened ;-)
There is so much text with the chat and the arresting that the screen is always full of text. It would give more time to get an evidence screen shot with more real evidence per screen grab because all the meaningless stuff would be gone.
RyanCooper
09-06-18, 07:54 PM
Beta revision 3, the idea is great, the problem is that if I'm playing by myself. Within the first round I end up getting 8/10 for unauthorized stuff that is not in my control. The next round I have to play LL if I don't want to get kicked...
Beta revision 3, the idea is great, the problem is that if I'm playing by myself. Within the first round I end up getting 8/10 for unauthorized stuff that is not in my control. The next round I have to play LL if I don't want to get kicked...
But as I said in server... for every ten minutes played, the penalty points are deducted by 4... this allows for these situations.
Problem is, it is a very fine line between a rambo / troll and players making mistakes
RyanCooper
10-06-18, 10:52 AM
But as I said in server... for every ten minutes played, the penalty points are deducted by 4... this allows for these situations.
Problem is, it is a very fine line between a rambo / troll and players making mistakes
Yes, I posted this before you came in the server :P
But I agree, a very fine line, especially when playing alone since you're the only one making mistakes!
Just had solo games and all went good until 2 players joined. Cant say that they were shooting everithign that moves but that was close to it and every round we had horrible penalties. Bot warned them both about reaching the maximum amount of penalties. After 10 minutes it decreases. Funny thing that they ddint even noticed that as kept shooting most of the time getting injured or dying meanwhile.
Imho need to do somethign with that hehe. Maybe increase penalty points or decrease max penality amount or increases time when they burn out. They still will play with LTL tho after reaching the 'top'. Just some thoughts :)
Just had solo games and all went good until 2 players joined. Cant say that they were shooting everithign that moves but that was close to it and every round we had horrible penalties. Bot warned them both about reaching the maximum amount of penalties. After 10 minutes it decreases. Funny thing that they ddint even noticed that as kept shooting most of the time getting injured or dying meanwhile.
Imho need to do somethign with that hehe. Maybe increase penalty points or decrease max penality amount or increases time when they burn out. They still will play with LTL tho after reaching the 'top'. Just some thoughts :)Are you saying it's not strict enough? I thought it would be the opposite.
I can make it stricter...can you confirm
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Yea I know its weird. Even tho I go full lethal, I got used to unfair penalities by the game and trying to not get into situations where it appears. Getting close to suspects as fast as possible and eliminate them if they not comply- that is my strategy. I cant speak for everyone about that but I felt it could be more unforgiving. Since its in Beta and we have to do more of the testing to find the gold middle.
Yea I know its weird. Even tho I go full lethal, I got used to unfair penalities by the game and trying to not get into situations where it appears. Getting close to suspects as fast as possible and eliminate them if they not comply- that is my strategy. I cant speak for everyone about that but I felt it could be more unforgiving. Since its in Beta and we have to do more of the testing to find the gold middle.I have increased the time to twenty minutes now before 4 point deduction. Let's see how that goes....
Thanks for the feedback
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SAS_Random
11-06-18, 09:08 PM
Maybe have Jessica Force less-lethal for players returning with 10 or more points, and have her restore weapons after 20 minutes when penalties are reduced by 4 Points???
That new list of players in game chat with penalties/deaths/score doesnt show much as it shows players who played it few hours and then stopped. With new score system they got 100% and will keep that 100% since they not playing and obviously not dying. I would suggest add list of players who actually playing game often and keep recalculation for this list weekly. So it wont show same players over and over again
That new list of players in game chat with penalties/deaths/score doesnt show much as it shows players who played it few hours and then stopped. With new score system they got 100% and will keep that 100% since they not playing and obviously not dying. I would suggest add list of players who actually playing game often and keep recalculation for this list weekly. So it wont show same players over and over againIt's still in development at the moment.... Ignore it as haven't finished it yet lol
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It's still in development at the moment.... Ignore it as haven't finished it yet lol
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Thought so ))
How does penaltiy score counts on status bar on web page? Looks like it differ from in game score
Otherwise I must have more penalties for sure
Thought so ))
How does penaltiy score counts on status bar on web page? Looks like it differ from in game score
Otherwise I must have more penalties for sure
Basically the score now displayed in the "TOP 5" ingame and the stats at website is calculated as follows:
Time spent in servers / (deaths + penalties)
The stats is now displayed correctly in game but only for the top 5 players weekly by score.
An example at the moment with your score:
Orion ---- 236527 / (5 deaths + 4 penalty points) = 86% (calciulated as percentage)
Thats good but I wondering how does penalties dysplay
Yesterday I had 8 penaltiy score points ingame and on web page I got only 4?
Thats good but I wondering how does penalties dysplay
Yesterday I had 8 penaltiy score points ingame and on web page I got only 4?
That is because the bot gives players 4 points back again every 20 minutes ;) (if they are over 4 in the first place)
Whatever you leave the game server on, is the number used.
So the moral of the story is, keep playing in the server and try not to be killed or get penalty points. Those players will be the ones with the best score
That is because the bot gives players 4 points back again every 20 minutes ;) (if they are over 4 in the first place)
Whatever you leave the game server on, is the number used.
So the moral of the story is, keep playing in the server and try not to be killed or get penalty points. Those players will be the ones with the best score
Correct me if Im wrong
I joined server and get 4 penalties for killing hostage, after 20 mins it will burn out with help of Jess. That penalties NOT gonna transfer to the web page so Im gonna stay clean and just get hours + deaths if happend.
If I joined server and get penalties and quit before burn out. That penalties WILL transfer to the web page stat bar
CorrectCorrect me if Im wrong
I joined server and get 4 penalties for killing hostage, after 20 mins it will burn out with help of Jess. That penalties NOT gonna transfer to the web page so Im gonna stay clean and just get hours + deaths if happend.
If I joined server and get penalties and quit before burn out. That penalties WILL transfer to the web page stat bar
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Having another thought about stats on page. Since now its weekly updates and shows in game chat leadersboard. Do we really need stats that are inaccurate here on web page? What I mean by that is total score calculation began really late and many players already have their hours of game play before. Unless we want to reset everithing
Keeping hours in stat bar with weekly score ( % will change every week ) is enough. And keep penalties /deaths/time updated weekly for game chat stat bar. ( mean small bar under your name and not full statistics on profile )
Looks like it can come back to original look. In my defence Ill say that its beta and it must keep changing for better representation of what it meant to )))
SAS_Random
21-06-18, 11:53 PM
One small suggestion is to make the leaderboard sortable by each column. Click on a column and the page refreshes, sorted by the selected metric.
One small suggestion is to make the leaderboard sortable by each column. Click on a column and the page refreshes, sorted by the selected metric.
Done, just click the header e.g. score, last seen etc
Hi Matt i dont want to be mean but i think there is a problem with system because Jessica dont warning me after 6 penalty points , i just wanted to say
Hi Matt i dont want to be mean but i think there is a problem with system because Jessica dont warning me after 6 penalty points , i just wanted to sayHi Skully
The calculation has changed but what you describe is actually what would happen.
If you ever get points in quick succession then the bot skips to the latest action. My suggestion would be you had 5 points then had 3 unauthorised kills quickly so added another 6 points on. This would then mean no final warning and kick.
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Hi Skully
The calculation has changed but what you describe is actually what would happen.
If you ever get points in quick succession then the bot skips to the latest action. My suggestion would be you had 5 points then had 3 unauthorised kills quickly so added another 6 points on. This would then mean no final warning and kick.
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Its make sense Matt , i should more careful thank you for answer .
SAS_Random
07-07-18, 04:53 PM
Here I go again. ;-)
Question about coop Kills....Do Kills include all incapacitations as well as the neutralizations, or do only true kills (neutralized suspects) go toward the total? Also, do civilians (incap/neut) and officers (incap) count in the total?
Here I go again. ;-)
Question about coop Kills....Do Kills include all incapacitations as well as the neutralizations, or do only true kills (neutralized suspects) go toward the total? Also, do civilians (incap/neut) and officers (incap) count in the total?
1) ALL COOP KILLS
2) Not sure what you mean, but if you kill another officier or civs this does not count. Only suspect kills.
SAS_Random
08-07-18, 01:36 AM
An incapacitated suspect is down but not dead. Neutralized is dead/killed. I wanted to know if your stats worked properly. Incapacitated suspects are actually arrested--even if we can't cuff them. I just wonder how the stat tracker sorts them.
An incapacitated suspect is down but not dead. Neutralized is dead/killed. I wanted to know if your stats worked properly. Incapacitated suspects are actually arrested--even if we can't cuff them. I just wonder how the stat tracker sorts them.Good point there and didn't think of that. Now changed to naturalized kills only
The injuring civs is online again after it has been tested. One point is issued for every occurrence. I can confirm that less lethal shotgun hits are excluded. Punching civs however does count.
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SAS_Random
09-07-18, 02:24 AM
Check the math on Dexter's arrest total. If he played only 14 hrs, there is no way he has encountered that many suspects to arrest. He would have his handcuffs out and be using them the entire time he's in the server ;-)
Also, I'm looking for my trophy for being the first to hit 100 penalties. I would like to thank all the people who stand behind me and and use their beanbags and pepper balls between my first shot and my follow up shot. Also, I'd like to thank Jessica for not allowing me to melee non compliant civilians. This is good for at least two penalties every round I play, so I'll be up to 200 penalties in about half the time it took me to get to 100. I was always an overachiever.
Check the math on Dexter's arrest total. If he played only 14 hrs, there is no way he has encountered that many suspects to arrest. He would have his handcuffs out and be using them the entire time he's in the server ;-)
Also, I'm looking for my trophy for being the first to hit 100 penalties. I would like to thank all the people who stand behind me and and use their beanbags and pepper balls between my first shot and my follow up shot. Also, I'd like to thank Jessica for not allowing me to melee non compliant civilians. This is good for at least two penalties every round I play, so I'll be up to 200 penalties in about half the time it took me to get to 100. I was always an overachiever.Arrests include civilians :)
Oh and the injuring civs is only active in our Pro servers.... at current that is none. Once the tournament is finished, we will convert our other servers as mentioned before. This will be then when our pro servers include this check.
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So there was still no clear answer on why punching is against rules and shooting with beanbags without warning is allowed. Maybe some one explain the logic behind it? Seems like i do not understand such move
Also thinking about arrest system in coop game. I have fear that some people might show us their egoism and would more likely arrest then cover teammates
SAS_Random
09-07-18, 10:41 AM
So there was still no clear answer on why punching is against rules and shooting with beanbags without warning is allowed. Maybe some one explain the logic...I have fear that some people might show us their egoism and would more likely arrest then cover teammates
I often feel that I am not being covered and that other players avoid shooting suspects just to avoid penalties. Even in a team, we seem to find ourselves alone.Some players are never up front and don't have to make the tough choices.
I don't expect there is a way to fix this. It's just unfortunate.
If I could I would made VOIP must have as a rule in PRO servers. That will eliminate such behaviour or at least minimize it to playable level with such punishment system. As just by the way of your communication you make own assumptions as if you trust this person to cover you or stay the hell away from him ))
So there was still no clear answer on why punching is against rules and shooting with beanbags without warning is allowed. Maybe some one explain the logic behind it? Seems like i do not understand such move
Also thinking about arrest system in coop game. I have fear that some people might show us their egoism and would more likely arrest then cover teammates
No one ever said it was against the rules :confused:
The logic behind the feature is actually not aimed at punching civs. Unfortunately the game does not distinguish between it and shooting them etc
The idea behind this was to stop trolls shooting civs legs etc.... sadly the punching civs is the only downside.
Can I also just clarify that the arrests statistics includes CIVS and SUSPECTS
No one ever said it was against the rules :confused:
The logic behind the feature is actually not aimed at punching civs. Unfortunately the game does not distinguish between it and shooting them etc
The idea behind this was to stop trolls shooting civs legs etc.... sadly the punching civs is the only downside.
Can I also just clarify that the arrests statistics includes CIVS and SUSPECTS
From thread 'Report DB - Stats Update v1' Please see full conversation
Punching a civi is still seen as hurting a civilian so it still will stay penalised, beanbag and launcher can hurt civi too so that shouldn't be penalised, especially if it is a acciden.
But you deciding to punch a civi is against the rules.
Do not injure or kill compliant or cuffed suspects or civilians on purpose.
So was idea to stop trolls shooting them or punching them? Even if it was against trolls that punch civis is it worth that? How many trolls you cut off and how many players that actually using it correctly?
From thread 'Report DB - Stats Update v1' Please see full conversation
So was idea to stop trolls shooting them or punching them? Even if it was against trolls that punch civis is it worth that? How many trolls you cut off and how many players that actually using it correctly?I'm not sure on what Wes states but the idea behind this feature was to stop trolls going round injuring suspects. Nothing more. Punching civs to get them to comply is a side affect.
Based on feedback this feature though is not standard. We will only enable it on specific servers. For example we may enable it on vanilla servers only as you can't punch civs there. Therefore the feature is very useful.
Thoughts?
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Need testing and feedback from other players. Not correct that there is just few of us who is interested in it. This might have negative impact on community and servers might stay empty except those few on it.
SAS_Random
10-07-18, 02:26 PM
Need testing and feedback from other players. Not correct that there is just few of us who is interested in it. This might have negative impact on community and servers might stay empty except those few on it.
I'm not sure that our feedback, and the changes associated with it, makes the server less attractive to the kind of player SOG is looking for.
I do think that more players should offer feedback.
To this point, I think we are getting closer to acceptable.
I think there may be a difference of opinion regarding how we each define "pro."
I think pro is a behavioral, something observed. If someone is doing the right things the right way, or at least trying to learn...that's pro. I don't think of pro as a difficulty level or a way to configure a server to a level at which the better players are challenged and the noobs stay away. In that regard, I think pro servers should be for everyone wanting to play the game for simulation/realism.
I think VIP play time counts here but deaths and arrest are not. Pretty sure I was playng only VIP day ago at vip 'hangout'. Now im in both tops of weekly and monthly stats board. Im terrible player and should not be there )) Having no penalties, deaths just zeros and only play time so no wonder I got 100%
I think VIP play time counts here but deaths and arrest are not. Pretty sure I was playng only VIP day ago at vip 'hangout'. Now im in both tops of weekly and monthly stats board. Im terrible player and should not be there )) Having no penalties, deaths just zeros and only play time so no wonder I got 100%Yes pvp modes aren't working correctly. I will have to disable and allow only on coop for now.
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Further note;
Regarding the injuring civs pemalty system.... this has been enabled only on vanilla coop servers as punching cannot happen here. In this case, injuring civs = 1 penalty point, and killing will result in 3 points to total 4. This matches the TSS coop servers.
Following feedback, stats no longer record for players on the server solo. As soon as 2 players are online, stats will record.
SAS_Random
24-07-18, 12:33 AM
I think that's a good move since solo players are covering 360 degrees on their own and often take a lot of fire...and do a lot of dying when they aren't racking up penalty points trying to protect themselves. The server needs traffic from the SOG community to promote the experience and this change will allow players trying to build their scores to hang out in the server without crushing their stats.
Seems like Jess doesnt pick up my kills and arrests at all. SWAT 4 Stats Tracking is enabled
I think that's a good move since solo players are covering 360 degrees on their own and often take a lot of fire...and do a lot of dying when they aren't racking up penalty points trying to protect themselves. The server needs traffic from the SOG community to promote the experience and this change will allow players trying to build their scores to hang out in the server without crushing their stats.Sorry realised I've forgotten to save the update lol. Will enable this later when home.
Orion .. I'll look into it later also
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I think that's a good move since solo players are covering 360 degrees on their own and often take a lot of fire...and do a lot of dying when they aren't racking up penalty points trying to protect themselves. The server needs traffic from the SOG community to promote the experience and this change will allow players trying to build their scores to hang out in the server without crushing their stats.
Ok this is now active. Couple of notes;
- Points will still be accumulated as normal, but all other stats will be disabled when only one player is in the server.
- Due to the above, Jessica gives extra tolerance for unauthorised kills. There is only one point issued on every occurrence when one player is alone. Two points are issued outside of this environment :)
Seems like Jess doesnt pick up my kills and arrests at all. SWAT 4 Stats Tracking is enabled
I have looked into this and think there was a small bug affecting a handful of uers. Please try again as I believe all is ok now.
SAS_Random
25-07-18, 08:23 AM
I'll check it out.
Deaths and penalties counts but kills and arrest are still not
Deaths and penalties counts but kills and arrest are still notCorrect but I did a fix late last night so can you try today and let me know?
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Played few hours today looks like need wait little bit to see
Now i got other questions
1. Does spectating counts as playtime?
2. Can be firefox and Foodwall maps be deleted from list?
3.1 Does Jess record my stats and transfer them to the web page if I started round alone then some one joined and now there is 2 or more of players?
3.2 Also what if other way around - We played with someone and then he/they left and i ended up alone finishing round?
3.3 What if that happend in middle- Someone joined while I was playing alone, then when I finishing round they left?
4. Does hours count if player alone?
5. Is it possible to see on webpage your last session stats? ( maybe as a feature in future or its bit too much? )) )
And few things want to point out. Weekly top is differ from stats on web page
It looks like with such score system those rambos giving you lot of points with arrest that they left behind while rushing thru rooms :)
Played few hours today looks like need wait little bit to see
Now i got other questions
1. Does spectating counts as playtime?
2. Can be firefox and Foodwall maps be deleted from list?
3.1 Does Jess record my stats and transfer them to the web page if I started round alone then some one joined and now there is 2 or more of players?
3.2 Also what if other way around - We played with someone and then he/they left and i ended up alone finishing round?
3.3 What if that happend in middle- Someone joined while I was playing alone, then when I finishing round they left?
4. Does hours count if player alone?
5. Is it possible to see on webpage your last session stats? ( maybe as a feature in future or its bit too much? )) )
And few things want to point out. Weekly top is differ from stats on web page
It looks like with such score system those rambos giving you lot of points with arrest that they left behind while rushing thru rooms :)
1. Yes, anytime you are in the server does
2. I can ask Sander to remove them from the map lists
3. All three points I can answer here. The system works in simple ways to ensure it is accurate. Basically as soon as a second player joins, stats start to be recorded. As soon as they leave, they stop being recorded. There is no memory. Therefore as soon as you are the lone player, no more stats are recorded apart from playing time & penalties.
4. Yes as above, this is not affected by lone playing
5. Possible yes, actually already exists which clan members can see. Will look at allowing players to see this also. Will post back.
Will look into weekly stats as that should match the server.
Thanks for feedback so far
2. What is the reason to remove them ?
With Pro server status, system that calculate your actions pretty accurate in different situations. And overall server where now mostly people join who have good coordination and team play. Imagine you running... what will you take - flip flops or sneakers? Thats how most of players think about those maps
SAS_Random
27-07-18, 06:18 PM
Fairfax is a 90 second mission, so it takes longer to load and ready up than to play it. It often has only one suspect. The map is a waste of time.
Fixed the server weekly top 5 matching the site. Thanks for letting me know
Will have the option to see your session stats enabled later tonight
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SAS_Random
28-07-18, 10:16 PM
Nice.
The gaming session stats have now been enabled as requested. Full details below
http://www.sog-team.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=3076&postcount=17
SAS_Random
29-07-18, 11:13 AM
I really like the "last session" idea.
Added now the ability to see the time a player is most online from our database.
This helps you have an idea of when your friends generally play in our servers
The information is added to your profile. Hope it helps!
SAS_Random
05-08-18, 02:50 AM
How about putting that info all on a timeline with names under the specific hours, so we can tell at a glance the names of those keeping similar patterns?
great idea, will take a little work short of putting it in a table.... but will get that added soon
SAS_Random
06-08-18, 11:15 PM
The link you posted earlier was good. Is there any chance that community members will be added, so we can see, in one place, what time we are likely to find specific people?
The link you posted earlier was good. Is there any chance that community members will be added, so we can see, in one place, what time we are likely to find specific people?There will be yes, they are now added but it needs more work. Will post back when I've fixed sorting etc
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SAS_Random
03-09-18, 02:48 AM
Look at these stats and see if it makes sense...
Name Gaming Time Last Seen P D K A Score
1 Hailerer Germany 2hrs 54mins 8 hours ago 10 6 22 52 88.7%
2 SAS_Random United States 3hrs 0min 14 hours ago 4 1 8 26 85%
It seems that I played cleanly, but did not score above 90% The only penalty I took was a bad c2 charge that killed someone away from the team. Other than that, no penalties for a long time. I killed only 8 suspects in 3 hrs. That's a ton of restraint on my part ;-) yet I have nothing to show for it.
It seems odd. That's all.
As leader, I used less lethal to subdue the suspects and ordered the arrests, but did not actually put the flex cuffs on. So, if I steal as many arrests as possible, I will do better?
Look at these stats and see if it makes sense...
NameGaming TimeLast Seen P D K A Score
1HailererGermany2hrs 54mins8 hours ago 10 6 22 52 88.7%
2SAS_RandomUnited States3hrs 0min14 hours ago4 182685%
It seems that I played cleanly, but did not score above 90% The only penalty I took was a bad c2 charge that killed someone away from the team. Other than that, no penalties for a long time. I killed only 8 suspects in 3 hrs. That's a ton of restraint on my part ;-) yet I have nothing to show for it.
It seems odd. That's all.
As leader, I used less lethal to subdue the suspects and ordered the arrests, but did not actually put the flex cuffs on. So, if I steal as many arrests as possible, I will do better?I'll look into it properly later but my guess would be the ratio built in for incapacitated and neutralized kills.
A few months back I added an additional parameter that gives you a better score for incapacitated suspects opposed to killed.
The arrests has nothing to do with the stats calculation.
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SAS_Random
03-09-18, 11:29 AM
I'll look into it properly later but my guess would be the ratio built in for incapacitated and neutralized kills.
A few months back I added an additional parameter that gives you a better score for incapacitated suspects opposed to killed.
For most of the session, I was using LTL shotgun, so I did not do more than injure with beanbags for about 2 of the 3 hrs.
I would think that using LTL would assure me of 100% since I can't incapacitate or kill suspects...
I only died one time in 3 hrs....so that's a lot of missions and a lot of success.
I'd be interested to find out what I'm doing wrong, because all I'm doing is following proper rules of engagement.
I'd be interested to find out what I'm doing wrong, because all I'm doing is following proper rules of engagement.
I think we digging too deep with adding those bot rules. Dug up so hard that people are not even joining it :) and honestly with that last add where score counts as only if there more than 1 player. On one side its totally understandable as it push you for coop game play and that is very good thing. On other side since there not many players playing it and even less playing on vanila PRO server. Most of times I played alone and if be in top of score board somehow motivated me now just having no joy playing. I really do hope that Ready or Not will bring not just new players but old friends also ))
I think we digging too deep with adding those bot rules. Dug up so hard that people are not even joining it :) and honestly with that last add where score counts as only if there more than 1 player. On one side its totally understandable as it push you for coop game play and that is very good thing. On other side since there not many players playing it and even less playing on vanila PRO server. Most of times I played alone and if be in top of score board somehow motivated me now just having no joy playing. I really do hope that Ready or Not will bring not just new players but old friends also ))Agreed but there really isn't a solution to this....
Yourself and random disagree for instance. You would rather have stats alone, he would not. Can't please all it would appear.
Players being active is kinda what it needs in swat 4 right now.....
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SAS_Random
06-09-18, 03:52 PM
A minimum of 8 of the 15 penalty points I received were total and utter fucking horse shit!!!! Shot a suspect who charged and crouched behind a pallet (next animation in the sequence from years of playing is suspect will lean and kill me)...minus 2 fucking points....suspect crouches and reaches for pistol, I shoot him...he and the pistol drop...minus 2 fucking points....suspect firing at another officer through glass so I return fire through glass to save the officer....minus 2 fucking points.....I turn a corner to face a suspect with armor and a shotgun, so I drop him...minus 2 fucking points....I can go on and on and on and on when all of this happens in a very short period of time the points rack up. Plus, I play aggressively anyway. I don't let armed suspects charge me. When I drop those people, I'm accepting the penalties so I don't get shot and have to watch the round. It's a fair trade. Getting constantly fucking screwed over by the fucking AI tied to fucked up rules PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!
There. I'm done venting. Do whatever you want. I'm falling on my sword.
A minimum of 8 of the 15 penalty points I received were total and utter fucking horse shit!!!! Shot a suspect who charged and crouched behind a pallet (next animation in the sequence from years of playing is suspect will lean and kill me)...minus 2 fucking points....suspect crouches and reaches for pistol, I shoot him...he and the pistol drop...minus 2 fucking points....suspect firing at another officer through glass so I return fire through glass to save the officer....minus 2 fucking points.....I turn a corner to face a suspect with armor and a shotgun, so I drop him...minus 2 fucking points....I can go on and on and on and on when all of this happens in a very short period of time the points rack up. Plus, I play aggressively anyway. I don't let armed suspects charge me. When I drop those people, I'm accepting the penalties so I don't get shot and have to watch the round. It's a fair trade. Getting constantly fucking screwed over by the fucking AI tied to fucked up rules PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!
There. I'm done venting. Do whatever you want. I'm falling on my sword.:) no comment...good old Jess
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SAS_Random
06-09-18, 07:54 PM
On the bright side, thanks to Jessica and the way the server is configured, I have a week to play other servers.
On the bright side, thanks to Jessica and the way the server is configured, I have a week to play other servers.You don't have a ban just a force less lethal.... Don't know what you wanted me to do to be honest. The system does more good than bad.... What were you hoping with your rant?
Site members don't get banned, just forced less lethal
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SAS_Random
06-09-18, 11:30 PM
The server message says that you will now be banned. It doesn't say you will be forced less lethal. Maybe you start by changing that. I'll wait out whatever period that forced less lethal stays in effect.
What do I want to happen...
I've said before that violating all game rules should not automatically result in personal penalties because the system is sooooo glitched.
Incapacitating an officer, neutralizing or incapacitating a civilian or unarmed suspect should be penalized, of course.
However...there should be no penalties for incapacitating of armed suspects because this is where the majority of the bullshittery takes place with respect to errors in the game.
I defend this because trouble makers that kill everything or ruin the server experience shoot everything indiscriminately. These people will still get penalized at a very high rate without abusing the community base with stupid penalties.
A minimum of 8 of the 15 penalty points I received were total and utter fucking horse shit!!!! Shot a suspect who charged and crouched behind a pallet (next animation in the sequence from years of playing is suspect will lean and kill me)...minus 2 fucking points....suspect crouches and reaches for pistol, I shoot him...he and the pistol drop...minus 2 fucking points....suspect firing at another officer through glass so I return fire through glass to save the officer....minus 2 fucking points.....I turn a corner to face a suspect with armor and a shotgun, so I drop him...minus 2 fucking points....I can go on and on and on and on when all of this happens in a very short period of time the points rack up. Plus, I play aggressively anyway. I don't let armed suspects charge me. When I drop those people, I'm accepting the penalties so I don't get shot and have to watch the round. It's a fair trade. Getting constantly fucking screwed over by the fucking AI tied to fucked up rules PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!
There. I'm done venting. Do whatever you want. I'm falling on my sword.
Oh I sooo feel you )))
Simple advice would be to ignore those tricky situations. Glass room in medical center as example. If there are suspects, I just wait out when they first shoot and then put them down or look careful as if they start aiming at civis then I can give few pills of lead by recipe. If suspects behind column im not even hink about shooting as columns and any other objec between you and suspect before suspect starts shooting detected by game as not a threat. In that situation im using grenade and fast advancing to suspect to shout or shoot if not complied. Those simple adjustments makes game possible but Im totally agree with Randoms play style as in any other game I would act the same way
SAS_Random
07-09-18, 07:29 PM
I try not to adapt my style to the game. I could let the suspect shoot the officer. Don't laugh. Players do this to not be penalized. That's your partner getting shot at. Some players let the suspects shoot the civilian and hope it's just an incapacitated not a neutralized...which would fail the mission. But hey, who cares if the mission fails as long as I don't lose points on my coop ranking. It seems like you are rewarding the wrong behaviors....because YOU are. Get woke.
I try not to adapt my style to the game. I could let the suspect shoot the officer. Don't laugh. Players do this to not be penalized. That's your partner getting shot at. Some players let the suspects shoot the civilian and hope it's just an incapacitated not a neutralized...which would fail the mission. But hey, who cares if the mission fails as long as I don't lose points on my coop ranking. It seems like you are rewarding the wrong behaviors....because YOU are. Get woke.I really don't know how often I have to explain.... I must not be making myself heard or understood.
Our servers are aimed at the general gamer. Not the hardcore enthusiast or the lone wolf counter strike player..... We aim to please the casual gamer in between.
The penalty system has been adapted countless times to try get the right balance based on feedback. We are never going to please everyone short of allowing a free for all.
The penalty system is not in place to allow realism of special forces. It's in place built on the game rules... Whether one agrees or not... that's the game that was coded and designed to be as it is.
None of our members to date have ever been kicked from the penalty system. We simply don't play aggressively to entertain it. The most I've ever had was 8 points and some of which were bug penalties.
We will as reasonable people always listen to community feedback, however the same argument to remove or tweak our system for self inflicted penalties gets a little old.
The management of SOG have all had their view on this system and approve it's use. We feel it's firm but fair, and protects what SOG stands for. I can only ever state being banned for Coop violations means the players gameplay is not reflecting what SOG expects in our servers. One is simply playing too aggressive and ignoring warnings....
Debate or no debate.... We follow the game rules not realism.
Thread closed.
If you wish to discuss further then contact us separately thanks.
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